Richmond PRR track map

Find an old ROW or want to know what the name of that one tower along the EL was? Post any historical questions or comments here. Open to any era from around the Ft Wayne area. Interurbans welcome!

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Notch 8
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Richmond PRR track map

Post by Notch 8 » Mon Dec 23, 2019 6:33 am

Richmond was a happening place
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Hotbox
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Re: Richmond PRR track map

Post by Hotbox » Thu Dec 26, 2019 5:23 pm

I really appreciate all the Richmond related material you've posted lately. It's a huge blind spot in my knowledge of Indiana railroading. Do you, or anyone else have any ideas what crew districts were involved in the several routes that passed thru Richmond? I think that somebody in another thread mentioned Indianapolis as a base.....anyone know how far east that might have gone? As well as the others?

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Howard
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Re: Richmond PRR track map

Post by Howard » Thu Dec 26, 2019 8:08 pm

I knew a man who was an engineer there in the 40s-50s. We didn't talk districts, but it sounded like he operated out of Richmond to where ever. He did mention that the GR&I to Fort Wayne was a prize run because because of it's schedule and he was able to get it once when he had low seniority when no one bid on it because they didn't think they could hold it. He saw the opening at the last minute and got it for 6 months--but only one time.

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Re: Richmond PRR track map

Post by Wayne Gest » Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:31 pm

I knew the son and daughter of a PRR conductor who worked out of Columbus and into Richmond and later into Indianapolis for years. I also met a retired engineer some fifty years ago in Columbus who'd worked almost always between Columbus and Richmond. He told me how he was losing his sight but was trying to hang on for pension and was lucky to have a good fireman who helped him through.

As for the rest, I know the home terminal was Richmond for the Cincinnati pool, I don't know any of the rest, GR&I or Richmond to Logansport. I want to say Richmond was the home terminal for both of them but that's guessing.

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Re: Richmond PRR track map

Post by Hotbox » Tue Dec 31, 2019 10:11 am

Thanks both Howard and Wayne.
Do you guys think that PRR "division maps" would be at all useful in determining limits of various crew districts? And by saying that, I realize that division maps are going to offer nothing specific about the crew districts inside them.

But is it safe to assume, for example that a given crew district is not going to extend beyond the division that it is based in?

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Re: Richmond PRR track map

Post by Wayne Gest » Tue Dec 31, 2019 2:11 pm

I don't know about the PRR but I know that the N&W freight pools could extend from one division to another, even in NKP days, the Bellevue-Lima pool extended from the NKP Fort Wayne Division to the Sandusky-New Castle Division, even though it was the shortest freight pool, in actual miles, on the entire Nickel Plate, 79 actual miles, IIRC.

In the 1930's, the PRR wiped out several crew change points, including the well known Bradford on the Panhandle side, running on through to Logansport, and Dennison, OH, east of Columbus, running on through to Pitcairn and Conway Yards in the greater Pittsburgh area. Is this when crews started operating on through Richmond to Indianapolis, being divided up between Columbus and Richmond men? I don't know but note that the newspaper article about the wreck on the White River bridge says the engineer and fireman were both from Indianapolis.

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Re: Richmond PRR track map

Post by Hotbox » Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:11 am

Interesting, thanks. So then would that make Employee Time Tables ta better source to identify crew districts?

(Edit/add) And if that seems like an ignorant question, I am sorry. I am not as experienced as many of you are in employing the common tools of the hobby. I'm just at a loss that historic information such as crew districts is not more readily available.

Maybe it's a worthless curiosity to begin with, but I'll find myself driving down a road and see an artifact , lets say such as the big concrete arch overpass in Cambridge City,....and one of the first thoughts that comes to mind is "oh I wonder where the guys who passed over that daily,....were from? Knowing the answer is of no productive use, but that doesn't keep me from wondering.

So then, you throw a map in front of me for some place like Richmond with lines running to Cincinnati, Indianapolis, Columbus, Ft Wayne, and Logansport (and add on top of that the other line east from Logansport through Union City) and it's just like catnip for me. I can't resist wondering how the big picture was crewed.

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Howard
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Re: Richmond PRR track map

Post by Howard » Wed Jan 01, 2020 8:09 pm

Talked to a friend who lived next door to the engineer I posted about. He says that the engineer often worked Richmond to Logansport and Richmond to Cincinnati that he knew of, lived in Richmond.

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Re: Richmond PRR track map

Post by Wayne Gest » Sat Jan 04, 2020 7:11 pm

I have never seen an employee timetable that identified crew districts and although you might be able to make some educated guesses by studying them, especially when reading special instructions, I don't think that they're generally good in answering the questions that you might have. I wish I had a better answer but if you could find access to old labor agreements, there would be more information there. There's that and picking the brains of whatever older rails you might find but finding them might be difficult.

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